tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post8184923084648270941..comments2023-10-16T10:40:19.559+00:00Comments on An Ayrshire Blog: Starlight and Young Earth CreationismUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-25938556480509299592012-08-28T05:13:32.102+00:002012-08-28T05:13:32.102+00:00Perhaps I'm a little late to the party, but ea...Perhaps I'm a little late to the party, but earlier in the discussion, someone asked how we could judge whether someone was truly a prophet. I propose the following test, given by Moses, which seems to also be a good scientific test. <br /><br />If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02461871907513895963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-76214894674180445822008-12-09T01:02:00.000+00:002008-12-09T01:02:00.000+00:00No I am certainly not arguing a constraint on God ...No I am certainly not arguing a constraint on God ( if he exists ). Quite the reverse. I am happy to accept any proposed actions by God that a literalist wants to suggest as a "get out of jail" on the starlight problem.<BR/><BR/>What I have shown is that the only way a literal interpretation can be supported in the face of this problem is to posit additional actions by God that aren't actually Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-17099213446098026932008-12-09T00:51:00.000+00:002008-12-09T00:51:00.000+00:00Bunc, certainly I am Looney, but it does seem to m...Bunc, certainly I am Looney, but it does seem to me that you are trying to assert a constraint on God - that even if God could create the mass, there is no way that He could create a steady state field in relation to the mass. I don't see why one is particularly harder than the other. On the other hand, I don't want to invest a lot of effort into defending one particular idea or another, Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-72197635889004413922008-12-08T23:32:00.000+00:002008-12-08T23:32:00.000+00:00LOL Looney, Of course you are right. It had to hap...LOL Looney, Of course you are right. It had to happen the way it says in the Bible otherwise there would need to have been a big bang at the beginning and that couldn't .... er hang on...<BR/><BR/>Certainly he couldnt have created the mass without the fields. That's not the issue. The question is whether the electromagnetic distubance emanating from the mass (ie the stars) was created "in situ" Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-57578860314395424322008-12-08T20:26:00.000+00:002008-12-08T20:26:00.000+00:00How about no credible alternative?If a mass sudden...How about no credible alternative?<BR/><BR/>If a mass suddenly appears in a system, there will be all kinds of electro-magnetic and gravitational waves emanating from the source with some fairly drastic consequences. A creation account necessarily means creating both the mass and the fields together. God would certainly understand the linkage between the two better than any physicist, so it Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-44571794452538487902008-12-08T16:08:00.000+00:002008-12-08T16:08:00.000+00:00Hmm. Looney I think we had this issue about Moses ...Hmm. Looney I think we had this issue about Moses versus scientists before did we not?<BR/><BR/>It is a bit ad hominem and I am not sure therefore that what you have written really addresses the point that I made in my last comment to you above.<BR/><BR/>If we can demonstrate that major things were left out of the Biblical account (and the starlight problem certainly does appear to demonstrate Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-27495448058422102342008-12-06T15:26:00.000+00:002008-12-06T15:26:00.000+00:00Bunc, looks like I need to monitor more carefully ...Bunc, looks like I need to monitor more carefully to figure out when things are added to these discussion lists. It seems that the notifications used to come automatically.<BR/><BR/>I have a few general rules of thumb based on a few decades of work with top researchers in mechanics. About 4 or 5 out of 10 researchers will master their field to the extent that they can parrot what they learned Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-54371928433404118762008-12-04T18:44:00.000+00:002008-12-04T18:44:00.000+00:00Douglas,I would suggest that you read what I have ...Douglas,<BR/>I would suggest that you read what I have written in this post (and eslewhere on this blog).<BR/>My post and my blog is not anti-theist in the way that you imply. I am not addressing the belief in God per se and generally haven't done that in this blog other than very occasionallly in the passing.<BR/><BR/>What I am addressing is the manifestation of Theism in the form of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-78549682614234614172008-12-04T18:25:00.000+00:002008-12-04T18:25:00.000+00:00Ok, Bunc, stick your finger in the dike if that tu...Ok, Bunc, stick your finger in the dike if that turns you on. But I have found that it is better to understand why something exists than it is to try to tear it down because you don't agree with it. There are many people who are atheists and then there are many more who think they are atheists but who are nothing more than anti-theists. You may not be ready to understand that yet.Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09752593286034877538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-28002514669992646882008-12-04T10:11:00.000+00:002008-12-04T10:11:00.000+00:00Looney,Spontaneous generation of the first organis...Looney,<BR/>Spontaneous generation of the first organism is indeed problemetic. However that's not really what is hypothesised - a progression from self catalysing organic chemicals leading to the first organism would probably be more accurate.<BR/><BR/>You a right however that the Theory of Evolution doesn't actually address this, it only addresses what happens after there are things replicatingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-62687922030239749162008-12-04T06:02:00.000+00:002008-12-04T06:02:00.000+00:00Bunc, I should state that yes, there are things th...Bunc, I should state that yes, there are things that I can't reconcile, but then again, I am quite certain that the Bible leaves a lot of information out. <BR/><BR/>In any case, I would be happy if atheists would acknowledge that the spontaneous generation of the first organism capable of evolution is no less problematic.Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-60446679691117851522008-12-03T16:00:00.000+00:002008-12-03T16:00:00.000+00:00lol well, you are definitely not a prophet Bunc be...lol well, you are definitely not a prophet Bunc because I'm not upset. :P Actually, I don't know why, but there is something about you guys that reminds me of something my father used to say: "Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell and make them happy about the trip." I don't know that tact would be the word I would use in your situation ;) but even when you are slandering our Delirioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01564398770468606675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-51347216267387229192008-12-03T15:04:00.000+00:002008-12-03T15:04:00.000+00:00Hi Argentum - noice to hear from you. Will vist yo...Hi Argentum - noice to hear from you. Will vist you soon.<BR/><BR/>Douglas,<BR/>I dont agree. I think we should debunk the bible because there has been a significant growth in the size and influence of fundamentalist groups and their nonsense needs to be shown up for what it is.<BR/><BR/>In regard to the fact that all cultures have creation stories - I agree that this merits discussion. However Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-20894991968711655292008-12-03T14:40:00.000+00:002008-12-03T14:40:00.000+00:00What you need to do, in my opinion, is not to look...What you need to do, in my opinion, is not to look for ways to debunk the bible but to examine the reasons why all cultures have creation stories.Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09752593286034877538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-75773551123947448202008-12-03T14:06:00.000+00:002008-12-03T14:06:00.000+00:00It's all a crock for people who haven't the stamin...It's all a crock for people who haven't the stamina to live their own lives. Religion is the evil we should be wary of.<BR/><BR/>AV<BR/>http://netherregionoftheearthii.blogspot.com/<BR/>http://tomusarcanum.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-8013103380309241092008-12-03T00:45:00.000+00:002008-12-03T00:45:00.000+00:00Delirious - You mean the original twelve Apostles?...Delirious - You mean the original twelve Apostles? I thought they were dead long before Joseph Smith "found" those tablets? Or would that be "Apostles" of the LDS? If so then who actually appointed them and on what authority?<BR/><BR/>In regard to the Tablets I would be greatly interested in any links to information about similar tablets found around the world.<BR/><BR/>Please do post any links Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-58308623572357277212008-12-03T00:34:00.000+00:002008-12-03T00:34:00.000+00:00The great Prohet Marf has spoken and I have faith ...The great Prohet Marf has spoken and I have faith in him. And by sheer coincindence I also felt moved with faith this evening and was blessed with prophesy that fortold that Delirious is going to be a little ticked of at all this mickey taking but that being a good sort will not take offense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-80641348170306327742008-12-03T00:28:00.000+00:002008-12-03T00:28:00.000+00:00Well, there are several criteria I could use, in a...Well, there are several criteria I could use, in addition to praying to God to know. For one, I would look to see if what you taught was consistent with God's teachings. If you were teaching me to slaughter innocent people, for example, that would be a safe bet that you weren't a real prophet. The second criteria is that you would have to be called of God by the existing Twelve apostles, and Delirioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01564398770468606675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-4672337092923765122008-12-02T22:42:00.000+00:002008-12-02T22:42:00.000+00:00We all know God was smart enough to set the light ...We all know God was smart enough to set the light already in route to Earth when He created the stars. So your argument is invalid. No need to change a universal constant of the universe like the speed of light... It's just God's magic. Yeah...<BR/><BR/>@ Delirious: So, if new scripture is possible, what if I suddenly became a prophet and said I have written new scripture for the Mormon faith? Marfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11883134840667378998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-44790032968702965742008-12-02T14:08:00.000+00:002008-12-02T14:08:00.000+00:00Actually, much of what you have said is way off ba...Actually, much of what you have said is way off base as far as current studies go. In fact, studies have shown that the word patterns of each separate book within the Book of Mormon are consistent with separate authors. And in fact, there are many archaelogical supports of the Book of Mormon. I could give you many links to read, but I don't really think there is a point when you don't believe Delirioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01564398770468606675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-72891564799691585902008-12-02T11:17:00.000+00:002008-12-02T11:17:00.000+00:00Clearly Muslims also believed in further revelatio...Clearly Muslims also believed in further revelation after the time of Christ because that is the basis of their religion also.<BR/><BR/>So how is one to tell a false prophet from a real one then? Seems to be a bit of a problem that one. If someone claims prophesy how is this to be disproved?<BR/><BR/>In regard to the authorship of the Book of Mormon you are I assume aware of the extensive Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-33083503292429817992008-12-01T19:29:00.000+00:002008-12-01T19:29:00.000+00:00Actually, we have more additional scripture than j...Actually, we have more additional scripture than just the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon was not written by Joseph Smith, but translated from gold plates. The gold plates were written by the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. Similar plates have been found throughout the world. The book of scripture I was referring to was the Book of Moses. This was scripture that was given by Delirioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01564398770468606675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-50525833928139683882008-12-01T17:54:00.000+00:002008-12-01T17:54:00.000+00:00I suppose that when Josepph Smith authored the Boo...I suppose that when Josepph Smith authored the Book of Mormon (which is I assume where your scripture comes from) he had the benefit of a slightly more modern knowledge of stars and planets than did the various authors of the old testament.<BR/><BR/>In this respect I suppose it is not so surprising then that he acknowledges there being "other worlds".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10587480.post-48240310234746371562008-12-01T04:10:00.000+00:002008-12-01T04:10:00.000+00:00We believe that God took some materials that were ...We believe that God took some materials that were already in existence to create this earth. In additional scripture that we have in our church He said, "And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten... But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, Delirioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01564398770468606675noreply@blogger.com